The Hammond Report

Andy, you once again spectacularly miss the point. «Fighting for oil» doesn't take place in a vacuum. If it did, you couldn't claim it as moral or immoral. No, fighting for oil means killing people, conservatively estimated at half-a-million so far. What you've just said is that it's okay to kill people and *take* their oil because we need it. That's murder committed in the act of theft. Does that read as moral to you?

Here's a thought, Andy. You pretend to be a big fan free-markets. Let's see if you walk the walk. My challenge to you is to stop supporting the theft of middle Easter oil, and start advocating that we pay for it. Let's pull out of Iraq, let the Shi'ite's take over, and then buy the oil from them. That certainly sounds more moral than theft and murder. Why don't we do that?

You're right Andy. Your challenge is «no less absurd» than the slogan «No War for Oil». It is, in fact, vastly more absurd. No one who doesn't hug the most extreme fringe thinks that we can just give up using oil. However, many rational people including Paul Wolfowitz (and presumably yourself considering your defense of the stance here) think it is perfectly rational to think we are fighting a war for oil. What you argued wasn't whether or not it is a rational stance. You argued whether or not it is a moral stance. I remind you of your claim:

The point I want to address here is the claim that oil is not worth protecting and/or fighting for. I think it is. The Middle East accounts for 24% of our oil imports. This is a significant chunk of what we depend on to keep our economy running smoothly. We must establish stability in this region to ensure the free flow of oil.

Simply put, neither of us think it absurd that we would fight a war for oil. You contend that it is necessary. I contend that it is murder in the commission of theft. You may find 'a slogan' absurd. But I await your argument as to why it's foundation can be seen as such, when we both agree that that foundation isn't absurd at all.

Yeah, I think the amount of oil every country in the world gets is directly proportional to the number of wars they start to get that oil.

That's because you can't get any oil without going to war. Well said, Andy.

Here's a thought, Wulfgar: People who have oil don't have to fight and die trying to keep it.